Letterboxing is not a game
5 messages in this thread |
Started on 2005-11-02
Letterboxing is not a game
From: morgunjp (morgunjp@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2005-11-02 06:04:06 UTC
A "game" implies compitition, a winner and a loser. My first
impression of Letterboxing was that people worked together so that
everyone could be successful, and have a good time. I hate to see so
many posts about "this game".
If you want to be a "winner" take up Orienteering, Chess, Go, Bridge,
etc. Don't get me wrong, I love games, including all the ones I
listed and more. If you want to help other folks have a good time,
stay here in Letterboxing.
Sadly, not all posters here seem to want others to have a good time
and be successful. For example #1: a desire to conceal the fact that
no one can find their box. For example: a desire to conceal their
clues, so that fewer people can enjoy them.
For example one: A better strategy might be to contact the people who
have trouble with your box & help them with their letterboxing skills
(escort them etc.). You might discover, as I did, that the
directions could have been better. I have offered to help with one
of my boxes 3 times & I have never been turned down.
For Concealing clues problem: I am tempted to do this too, but at
least have a good motive. For example you could post a few boxes
with crummy throw-away stamps etc. If people do your boxes and
rehide them, send them clues to a new set of boxes, etc.
Letterboxing should be fun - like a huge party where everyone can
have a great time.
Morgunjp
Re: [LbNA] Letterboxing is not a game
From: todd carden (cardentm2002@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2005-11-02 00:24:26 UTC-08:00
I TOTALLY AGREE,,,,,,,,,SOUNDS LIKE YOU ALL NEED TO SPEND MORE TIME AT WORK,TO RELIEVE SOME OF ALL THIS STRESS.................
morgunjp wrote:
A "game" implies compitition, a winner and a loser. My first
impression of Letterboxing was that people worked together so that
everyone could be successful, and have a good time. I hate to see so
many posts about "this game".
If you want to be a "winner" take up Orienteering, Chess, Go, Bridge,
etc. Don't get me wrong, I love games, including all the ones I
listed and more. If you want to help other folks have a good time,
stay here in Letterboxing.
Sadly, not all posters here seem to want others to have a good time
and be successful. For example #1: a desire to conceal the fact that
no one can find their box. For example: a desire to conceal their
clues, so that fewer people can enjoy them.
For example one: A better strategy might be to contact the people who
have trouble with your box & help them with their letterboxing skills
(escort them etc.). You might discover, as I did, that the
directions could have been better. I have offered to help with one
of my boxes 3 times & I have never been turned down.
For Concealing clues problem: I am tempted to do this too, but at
least have a good motive. For example you could post a few boxes
with crummy throw-away stamps etc. If people do your boxes and
rehide them, send them clues to a new set of boxes, etc.
Letterboxing should be fun - like a huge party where everyone can
have a great time.
Morgunjp
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morgunjp
A "game" implies compitition, a winner and a loser. My first
impression of Letterboxing was that people worked together so that
everyone could be successful, and have a good time. I hate to see so
many posts about "this game".
If you want to be a "winner" take up Orienteering, Chess, Go, Bridge,
etc. Don't get me wrong, I love games, including all the ones I
listed and more. If you want to help other folks have a good time,
stay here in Letterboxing.
Sadly, not all posters here seem to want others to have a good time
and be successful. For example #1: a desire to conceal the fact that
no one can find their box. For example: a desire to conceal their
clues, so that fewer people can enjoy them.
For example one: A better strategy might be to contact the people who
have trouble with your box & help them with their letterboxing skills
(escort them etc.). You might discover, as I did, that the
directions could have been better. I have offered to help with one
of my boxes 3 times & I have never been turned down.
For Concealing clues problem: I am tempted to do this too, but at
least have a good motive. For example you could post a few boxes
with crummy throw-away stamps etc. If people do your boxes and
rehide them, send them clues to a new set of boxes, etc.
Letterboxing should be fun - like a huge party where everyone can
have a great time.
Morgunjp
SPONSORED LINKS
Gsi outdoors Outdoors The great outdoors
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "letterbox-usa" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
letterbox-usa-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Letterboxing is not a game
From: SpringChick (springchick@letterbox-mi.com) |
Date: 2005-11-02 10:57:19 UTC
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "morgunjp"
wrote:
>
>
> A "game" implies compitition, a winner and a loser.
Call it whatever you like, but many do consider letterboxing to be a
game. I do not agree that "game" implies a winner and a loser. My
dictionary defines game as "an activity engaged in for diversion or
amusement, often involving strategy or a competition." I think that
fits perfectly -- competition does not have to be with another
person, it can be with the elements, the clues, even with yourself.
If you want to help other folks have a good time,
> stay here in Letterboxing.
> Sadly, not all posters here seem to want others to have a good
time
> and be successful.
I am not sure where you got the impression that letterboxing is
about helping other people. Of course the goal is for everyone to
have a good time, but the crux of this game is not to help others.
It is about adventure and challenge -- both in creating a letterbox
and finding a letterbox. The goal when planting a letterbox is to
create a fun and challenging "hunt," not necessarily to ensure the
success of your finders. There are many ways to provide for the
enjoyment of seekers -- a great hike through old-growth forest, a
scenic lakeside destination, a puzzling set of clues, a skillfully
carved stamp, etc. It is not just about leading them to the box.
If that were the case, we'd all be planting drive-by boxes with 1-2-
3 clues to ensure that each and every seeker is successful in
logging the find.
For example #1: a desire to conceal the fact that
> no one can find their box. For example: a desire to conceal their
> clues, so that fewer people can enjoy them.
I don't think anyone is trying to do this. Many people do not list
their clues on any of the major clue sites, but they are readily
available on personal internet sites to anyone who bothers to look
for them. Granted, they are not being handed directly to you, but
they are available. Even in situations where box clues are not
posted anywhere (i.e. WOM boxes), the idea behind that is still to
provide enjoyment for the seekers. I have never met a letterboxer
who has been given a WOM clue who wasn't tickled to death to have
been entrusted with it. As for fewer people having the opportunity
to enjoy those -- yeh, but that is the nature of the game -- not all
boxes are for all people. Some you have to earn -- that is part of
the fun.
> Letterboxing should be fun - like a huge party where everyone can
> have a great time.
On this we agree. We each garner our own sense of fun based on our
personal interests and our individual philosophy of the game. I get
much enjoyment from the way I play the game -- both as a planter and
a seeker. You can play how you want to play and hopefully that is
fun for you. I don't really care how you are choosing to play --
just don't come around trying to impose your style on me or trying
to dumb-down the game for those of us who still enjoy the
challenging and clandestine aspects of the way it is played.
After all, I am not preaching to you or anyone else that each person
who plants a letterbox must hand-carve the stamp, hand-bind the log
book and create witty and clever mystery clues requiring at least a
2-3 mile hike to a scenic destination (which is is my personal
preference for a letterbox).
SpringChick
p.s. So in your book, Solitaire is not a game?
wrote:
>
>
> A "game" implies compitition, a winner and a loser.
Call it whatever you like, but many do consider letterboxing to be a
game. I do not agree that "game" implies a winner and a loser. My
dictionary defines game as "an activity engaged in for diversion or
amusement, often involving strategy or a competition." I think that
fits perfectly -- competition does not have to be with another
person, it can be with the elements, the clues, even with yourself.
If you want to help other folks have a good time,
> stay here in Letterboxing.
> Sadly, not all posters here seem to want others to have a good
time
> and be successful.
I am not sure where you got the impression that letterboxing is
about helping other people. Of course the goal is for everyone to
have a good time, but the crux of this game is not to help others.
It is about adventure and challenge -- both in creating a letterbox
and finding a letterbox. The goal when planting a letterbox is to
create a fun and challenging "hunt," not necessarily to ensure the
success of your finders. There are many ways to provide for the
enjoyment of seekers -- a great hike through old-growth forest, a
scenic lakeside destination, a puzzling set of clues, a skillfully
carved stamp, etc. It is not just about leading them to the box.
If that were the case, we'd all be planting drive-by boxes with 1-2-
3 clues to ensure that each and every seeker is successful in
logging the find.
For example #1: a desire to conceal the fact that
> no one can find their box. For example: a desire to conceal their
> clues, so that fewer people can enjoy them.
I don't think anyone is trying to do this. Many people do not list
their clues on any of the major clue sites, but they are readily
available on personal internet sites to anyone who bothers to look
for them. Granted, they are not being handed directly to you, but
they are available. Even in situations where box clues are not
posted anywhere (i.e. WOM boxes), the idea behind that is still to
provide enjoyment for the seekers. I have never met a letterboxer
who has been given a WOM clue who wasn't tickled to death to have
been entrusted with it. As for fewer people having the opportunity
to enjoy those -- yeh, but that is the nature of the game -- not all
boxes are for all people. Some you have to earn -- that is part of
the fun.
> Letterboxing should be fun - like a huge party where everyone can
> have a great time.
On this we agree. We each garner our own sense of fun based on our
personal interests and our individual philosophy of the game. I get
much enjoyment from the way I play the game -- both as a planter and
a seeker. You can play how you want to play and hopefully that is
fun for you. I don't really care how you are choosing to play --
just don't come around trying to impose your style on me or trying
to dumb-down the game for those of us who still enjoy the
challenging and clandestine aspects of the way it is played.
After all, I am not preaching to you or anyone else that each person
who plants a letterbox must hand-carve the stamp, hand-bind the log
book and create witty and clever mystery clues requiring at least a
2-3 mile hike to a scenic destination (which is is my personal
preference for a letterbox).
SpringChick
p.s. So in your book, Solitaire is not a game?
RE: [LbNA] Letterboxing is not a game
From: Mosey (PonyExpressMail@comcast.net) |
Date: 2005-11-02 06:15:40 UTC-06:00
1. The word "game" might *imply* competition against others to you, but
that's a long way from the total definition of the word. When children play
"games" there's often no competition at all. One definition is merely as a
"pastime or amusement."
And what about the "game" of diplomacy? OK OK, I suppose some could opine
that there's plenty of competition there. So OK, forget that one.
In a way, with letterboxing, I *am* competing. With myself. Sort of like
working crossword puzzles. To see how I've improved in my clue reading
abilities, in my compass working abilities, etc. Some folks compete at
crossword puzzles by timing themselves against others. Other people compete
against themselves, aiming to get better and better. I don't play Solitaire
much myself but that's another "game" where a person is basically playing
for amusement and, if competing, they're competing against themself. I love
to do maze puzzles. That's another game where I'm competing with nobody but
myself.
Some placers put First Finder Certificates and/or prizes in new boxes they
place. And some searchers compete to be that first finder. So sometimes
there *is* a little competition. Some placers don't like the aspect of that
"race" and no longer do First Finder Certificates. To each his/her own.
Whatever floatsdaboat.
2. "If you want to help folks........" I'd have to simply disagree with
you here. I don't see letterboxing as charity. If I want to help folks,
I'll maybe donate to the local food pantry. Or help teach English to
someone who just got here from Guatemala and needs some drastic help with
their English skills. Etc. Pippi & Keith had a letterbox, now retired, at a
local cemetery that was on the grounds of a large shopping mall. The clues
were easy for some folks, difficult for others -- it kind of depended on how
people worked their imaginations and then did a little research. The people
who couldn't figure it out received no charity. Were they owed any? Nah.
3. You state that "concealing clues" is OK as long as there's a good
motive? Oh dear, you're opening the list up to "squabbles" again. :-) Who
gets to decide the "goodness" of a person's motive? Is there a Bishops
Council of Letterboxing to rule on the Goodness of Motive?
4. There are going to be boxes with comfusing clues. A lot of boxers find,
when they go back and re-examine those clues a couple of years later, and
many found boxes down the road, that those clues weren't really all that
confusing. The boxer was just new to the game. Some people need to get
their feet wet with a lot of simpler boxes. Other people are Einsteins from
the get-go. I was no Einstein. When I started out, I was basically one of
those Romper Room Rejects. Still often am because I've only been playing a
couple of years now.
But then I'm also a person who doesn't mind doing "confusing" in the least.
Confusing can be fun. Can make me think outside the box, no pun intended.
"Confusing" is what a lot of "mystery" boxes are all about. I *do* like
clues to be accurate, but even when they're not, that can be OK too.
Sometimes it's fun to try to get into the mind of a new placer and try to
figure out "OK, could they have meant *this* instead of *that*?" and try
working the clues by changing things a bit. One of my favorite boxes took
us three hours to find because the placer wrote "east" and should have
written "north." We decided to try it with all four directions.
Unfortunately, ended up trying north last, so it took us three hours. :-)
But sure, I'd prefer the clues to be accurate. Whenever I've gone searching
for the box of someone who's just beginning to place boxes, I always have a
bit of trepidation because I know nothing of their style, nothing of how
accurate they are, etc. Sometimes that can be part of the fun, sometimes
it's part of the frustration.
5. Yep, I most certainly agree that letterboxing is *about* having fun.
But in a huge variety of ways. Sometimes the way I start out expecting to
have fun that day isn't the way I end up having fun. But it can *all* be
fun if I stay flexible. And some days my attitude is more flexible than
others. Sometimes I'll open a box to find a store-bought stamp and be
really disappointed. Super disappointed. Ready to strangle the placer. Is
the placer obligated to put a "unique" stamp in their box so that I'll have
fun? No. Am I obligated to appreciate finding a store-bought stamp? No.
OK, so that trip might not end up being all that much fun that day. For me.
Better luck another day.
I do disagree tho that letterboxing is a game where *every*body is going to
have fun. For some people, letterboxing just isn't going to end up being
*their* thing. For others, they'll enjoy some hunts and not others. I
don't see that there's an obligation to make the game everybody's cup of tea
or every search everybody's cup of tea. Is that obligation built into other
games? Why does it have to be built into letterboxing?
I guess the way I figure it, I'm responsible for making my own fun. When I
go to a large party, I don't hold the host responsible for whether or not
*I* had fun. I don't do it in letterboxing either. Fun or not fun -- it's
my choice.
~~ Mosey ~~
-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of morgunjp
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 12:04 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Letterboxing is not a game
A "game" implies compitition, a winner and a loser. My first
impression of Letterboxing was that people worked together so that
everyone could be successful, and have a good time. I hate to see so
many posts about "this game".
If you want to be a "winner" take up Orienteering, Chess, Go, Bridge,
etc. Don't get me wrong, I love games, including all the ones I
listed and more. If you want to help other folks have a good time,
stay here in Letterboxing.
Sadly, not all posters here seem to want others to have a good time
and be successful. For example #1: a desire to conceal the fact that
no one can find their box. For example: a desire to conceal their
clues, so that fewer people can enjoy them.
For example one: A better strategy might be to contact the people who
have trouble with your box & help them with their letterboxing skills
(escort them etc.). You might discover, as I did, that the
directions could have been better. I have offered to help with one
of my boxes 3 times & I have never been turned down.
For Concealing clues problem: I am tempted to do this too, but at
least have a good motive. For example you could post a few boxes
with crummy throw-away stamps etc. If people do your boxes and
rehide them, send them clues to a new set of boxes, etc.
Letterboxing should be fun - like a huge party where everyone can
have a great time.
Morgunjp
Yahoo! Groups Links
that's a long way from the total definition of the word. When children play
"games" there's often no competition at all. One definition is merely as a
"pastime or amusement."
And what about the "game" of diplomacy? OK OK, I suppose some could opine
that there's plenty of competition there. So OK, forget that one.
In a way, with letterboxing, I *am* competing. With myself. Sort of like
working crossword puzzles. To see how I've improved in my clue reading
abilities, in my compass working abilities, etc. Some folks compete at
crossword puzzles by timing themselves against others. Other people compete
against themselves, aiming to get better and better. I don't play Solitaire
much myself but that's another "game" where a person is basically playing
for amusement and, if competing, they're competing against themself. I love
to do maze puzzles. That's another game where I'm competing with nobody but
myself.
Some placers put First Finder Certificates and/or prizes in new boxes they
place. And some searchers compete to be that first finder. So sometimes
there *is* a little competition. Some placers don't like the aspect of that
"race" and no longer do First Finder Certificates. To each his/her own.
Whatever floatsdaboat.
2. "If you want to help folks........" I'd have to simply disagree with
you here. I don't see letterboxing as charity. If I want to help folks,
I'll maybe donate to the local food pantry. Or help teach English to
someone who just got here from Guatemala and needs some drastic help with
their English skills. Etc. Pippi & Keith had a letterbox, now retired, at a
local cemetery that was on the grounds of a large shopping mall. The clues
were easy for some folks, difficult for others -- it kind of depended on how
people worked their imaginations and then did a little research. The people
who couldn't figure it out received no charity. Were they owed any? Nah.
3. You state that "concealing clues" is OK as long as there's a good
motive? Oh dear, you're opening the list up to "squabbles" again. :-) Who
gets to decide the "goodness" of a person's motive? Is there a Bishops
Council of Letterboxing to rule on the Goodness of Motive?
4. There are going to be boxes with comfusing clues. A lot of boxers find,
when they go back and re-examine those clues a couple of years later, and
many found boxes down the road, that those clues weren't really all that
confusing. The boxer was just new to the game. Some people need to get
their feet wet with a lot of simpler boxes. Other people are Einsteins from
the get-go. I was no Einstein. When I started out, I was basically one of
those Romper Room Rejects. Still often am because I've only been playing a
couple of years now.
But then I'm also a person who doesn't mind doing "confusing" in the least.
Confusing can be fun. Can make me think outside the box, no pun intended.
"Confusing" is what a lot of "mystery" boxes are all about. I *do* like
clues to be accurate, but even when they're not, that can be OK too.
Sometimes it's fun to try to get into the mind of a new placer and try to
figure out "OK, could they have meant *this* instead of *that*?" and try
working the clues by changing things a bit. One of my favorite boxes took
us three hours to find because the placer wrote "east" and should have
written "north." We decided to try it with all four directions.
Unfortunately, ended up trying north last, so it took us three hours. :-)
But sure, I'd prefer the clues to be accurate. Whenever I've gone searching
for the box of someone who's just beginning to place boxes, I always have a
bit of trepidation because I know nothing of their style, nothing of how
accurate they are, etc. Sometimes that can be part of the fun, sometimes
it's part of the frustration.
5. Yep, I most certainly agree that letterboxing is *about* having fun.
But in a huge variety of ways. Sometimes the way I start out expecting to
have fun that day isn't the way I end up having fun. But it can *all* be
fun if I stay flexible. And some days my attitude is more flexible than
others. Sometimes I'll open a box to find a store-bought stamp and be
really disappointed. Super disappointed. Ready to strangle the placer. Is
the placer obligated to put a "unique" stamp in their box so that I'll have
fun? No. Am I obligated to appreciate finding a store-bought stamp? No.
OK, so that trip might not end up being all that much fun that day. For me.
Better luck another day.
I do disagree tho that letterboxing is a game where *every*body is going to
have fun. For some people, letterboxing just isn't going to end up being
*their* thing. For others, they'll enjoy some hunts and not others. I
don't see that there's an obligation to make the game everybody's cup of tea
or every search everybody's cup of tea. Is that obligation built into other
games? Why does it have to be built into letterboxing?
I guess the way I figure it, I'm responsible for making my own fun. When I
go to a large party, I don't hold the host responsible for whether or not
*I* had fun. I don't do it in letterboxing either. Fun or not fun -- it's
my choice.
~~ Mosey ~~
-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of morgunjp
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 12:04 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Letterboxing is not a game
A "game" implies compitition, a winner and a loser. My first
impression of Letterboxing was that people worked together so that
everyone could be successful, and have a good time. I hate to see so
many posts about "this game".
If you want to be a "winner" take up Orienteering, Chess, Go, Bridge,
etc. Don't get me wrong, I love games, including all the ones I
listed and more. If you want to help other folks have a good time,
stay here in Letterboxing.
Sadly, not all posters here seem to want others to have a good time
and be successful. For example #1: a desire to conceal the fact that
no one can find their box. For example: a desire to conceal their
clues, so that fewer people can enjoy them.
For example one: A better strategy might be to contact the people who
have trouble with your box & help them with their letterboxing skills
(escort them etc.). You might discover, as I did, that the
directions could have been better. I have offered to help with one
of my boxes 3 times & I have never been turned down.
For Concealing clues problem: I am tempted to do this too, but at
least have a good motive. For example you could post a few boxes
with crummy throw-away stamps etc. If people do your boxes and
rehide them, send them clues to a new set of boxes, etc.
Letterboxing should be fun - like a huge party where everyone can
have a great time.
Morgunjp
Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [LbNA] Letterboxing is not a game
From: Donna Magner (donutz716@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2005-11-02 04:39:03 UTC-08:00
I play solitaire. Isn't that a game?
Enjoy!
donutz716
morgunjp wrote:
A "game" implies compitition, a winner and a loser. My first
impression of Letterboxing was that people worked together so that
everyone could be successful, and have a good time. I hate to see so
many posts about "this game".
If you want to be a "winner" take up Orienteering, Chess, Go, Bridge,
etc. Don't get me wrong, I love games, including all the ones I
listed and more. If you want to help other folks have a good time,
stay here in Letterboxing.
Sadly, not all posters here seem to want others to have a good time
and be successful. For example #1: a desire to conceal the fact that
no one can find their box. For example: a desire to conceal their
clues, so that fewer people can enjoy them.
For example one: A better strategy might be to contact the people who
have trouble with your box & help them with their letterboxing skills
(escort them etc.). You might discover, as I did, that the
directions could have been better. I have offered to help with one
of my boxes 3 times & I have never been turned down.
For Concealing clues problem: I am tempted to do this too, but at
least have a good motive. For example you could post a few boxes
with crummy throw-away stamps etc. If people do your boxes and
rehide them, send them clues to a new set of boxes, etc.
Letterboxing should be fun - like a huge party where everyone can
have a great time.
Morgunjp
SPONSORED LINKS
Gsi outdoors Outdoors The great outdoors
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "letterbox-usa" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
letterbox-usa-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Enjoy!
donutz716
morgunjp
A "game" implies compitition, a winner and a loser. My first
impression of Letterboxing was that people worked together so that
everyone could be successful, and have a good time. I hate to see so
many posts about "this game".
If you want to be a "winner" take up Orienteering, Chess, Go, Bridge,
etc. Don't get me wrong, I love games, including all the ones I
listed and more. If you want to help other folks have a good time,
stay here in Letterboxing.
Sadly, not all posters here seem to want others to have a good time
and be successful. For example #1: a desire to conceal the fact that
no one can find their box. For example: a desire to conceal their
clues, so that fewer people can enjoy them.
For example one: A better strategy might be to contact the people who
have trouble with your box & help them with their letterboxing skills
(escort them etc.). You might discover, as I did, that the
directions could have been better. I have offered to help with one
of my boxes 3 times & I have never been turned down.
For Concealing clues problem: I am tempted to do this too, but at
least have a good motive. For example you could post a few boxes
with crummy throw-away stamps etc. If people do your boxes and
rehide them, send them clues to a new set of boxes, etc.
Letterboxing should be fun - like a huge party where everyone can
have a great time.
Morgunjp
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